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USAgent
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:29 am  Reply with quote
Professorman Johnson
Professorman Johnson


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 252
Location: The Great USA

Things I didn't like about TDK

* Sal Maroni and Detective Stephenson (the cop who the black guy took the detonator from) had similar faces. I was like (WTF why is Maroni acting like a cop and why are his ankles better?)

* The cop Twoface killed at the bar looked exactly like Roman Falcone. More confusion.

*Is Twoface dead or not? They act like he is, but considering the fall, he shouldn?t be.

*Also, Ramirez and her exact involvement in the Dent/Dawes kidnapping felt glossed over. All we know is that she and the cop at the bar had a hand in it, but not seeing it/hearing more about it made it hard for me to care. Just more clutter to distract from the big picture.

*Another thing that bothered me is how Batman and Gordon always kept in touch over radio in Gotham Knights, but here Batman couldn't even get him to call off the SWAT team.

*Was the China kidnapping subplot really necessary? All it did distract from the important parts of the plot and make detract from the credibility of the Nolanverse?s legal system (international incident anyone?)

*The guy who knew batman?s identity? whatever happened to him? (Come on--he's going to be Riddler. He didn't see that coming? I forgot his first name but his second name is 'Reese'. Mr. Reese. GET IT?!) He just decided to keep quiet because Bruce Wayne saved him? Also, it wasn?t fully clear why he was holding back once he was on TV and the Joker wanted him dead. If someone wants you dead for knowing too much you might as well spill the beans.

*The criminal ferry, if not both ferries would have broken out into a riot. This is fucking Gotham, the most violent city in the world. There?s a boat full of prisoners, many of them probably Arkham inmates. They should have been at each other?s throats. They?ll still kill some random guy because the joker says he?d blow up a hospital but when its their own lives and their families on the line they take a vote. LOL.

*Two-face's motivations weren't portrayed well. Why he considers killing a kid better revenge than killing the Joker makes sense in retrospect (the coin flip let Joker off the hook) but this simple fact was lost beneath a sea of rants about how he's doing it for true justice and it's not fair blah blah that it just made me shake my head. Not a good characterization.

*Batman's superduper vision was stupid. The movie shows his eyes lighting up and then cuts to another scene before even giving the audience an explanation of why batman?s mask is going nuts. Also, when did Bruce and Lucius go from "don't ask don't tell" to "three guys coming behind you batman!"

*Loose ends: What happened to Maroni? If Two-face survived the car crash then I assume he's okay unless otherwise indicated. Is Two face dead or not? (they act like he's dead but that fall shouldn't have killed him, since it didn't kill batman).

All in all, the film full of so many characters and subplots that the film had to rush from point to point to get through everything, leaving little gaps and questions nagging at me and preventing me from enjoying the really cool parts to the fullest. Even with two and a half hours, they tried to fit too much. Either the movie should have been longer, or, better yet, relieved of certain plot elements that didn?t have enough screen time to mature into something satisfying.

Seeing it a second time I won't be as distracted with following the story so I can focus on the awesome parts of it. I?m sure it will get better with multiple viewings.

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ookook
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:16 pm  Reply with quote
Wisegay
Wisegay


Joined: 31 May 2007
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Location: YOUR BUTT HAHAAHAHAL OLOL

*Loose ends: What happened to Maroni? If Two-face survived the car crash then I assume he's okay unless otherwise indicated. Is Two face dead or not? (they act like he's dead but that fall shouldn't have killed him, since it didn't kill batman).

That guy wasn't wearing his seatbelt. *tsk tsk tsk* I'm pretty sure he took it off or was about to put it on right before Two-face killed the driver.

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FortheLoveofJoe
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:24 pm  Reply with quote
Degrassi School President


Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 900

You could've actually put the movie title in the thread, you weirdo. I mean I sort of guessed it was about Batman but others will not be so lucky and they will be all OH WHAT IS TDK ON THIS POPULAR, COOL FORUM, I DON'T KNOW GUESS I DON'T MIND A SPOILER FOR IT, HUM THAT WAS INTERESTING NOW I AM GOING TO THE THEATERS TO SEE THE DARK KNIGHT OH MY GOD YOU GUYS I KNOW THE WHOLE PLOT ALREADY IT WAS THAT THREAD DAMN YOU LISTENTOME.NET I WILL NEVER VISIT YOU AGAIN AND TELL MY FRIENDS NOT TO VISIT AND YOUR TRAFFIC WILL FALL AND NO ONE WILL EVER LOVE YOU OR EVEN WANT TO HOLD HANDS!!!!!

So, yeah, hope you're happy with yourself.

Now I will make the single longest post on this forum ever for reals.

Yeah, it was pretty good overall and better than Batman Begins, but I think it's just a tad overrated.

THINGS I NO LIKE:

* Heath Ledger did a fine job, managing to often be simultaneously really creepy and funny, but I think other people could've done what he did. And then not died. I mean, the thing is that the Joker isn't a deep character. He's just completely evil. I'm no actor, but at a guess, I don't think it's THAT hard to play a one-track minded person.

*The Joker and Batman are both way too good at getting into places without anyone knowing. Batman I guess is fine because he's a trained ninja man, but how come the Joker's all awesome? He just walks into that mob meeting. What a shitty meeting place if the Joker just walked in there.

* The plot WAS very convoluted and I think dragged a bit at times. It really did just keep on going, but usually stuff did pop up to make me interested again.

* I too had issues with forgetting or not knowing at all who people were at times (the fact that a lot of it was dark might have had something to do with this). It also, like you said, gave a lot of the film a feeling of being rushed through, long as it was, because they had to get the plot points out of the way to keep the damn thing moving.

* I thought the copycat Batman subplot kind of just popped up a few times and overall resulted in very little.

* Why the hell did the Scarecrow show up for five seconds, then act like a total pussy and get caught? (By the way, when Batman jumps on the car you can see that there's no one in it whatsoever right as he lands, Scarecrow just totally disappears.)

* I don't like how Nolan edits (or how whoever edits for him edits anyway) dialogue. I didn't in the first film either. It's sort of like the most basic editing you can do for dialogue where you just stay on a person while they're talking then cut immediately to the next person when they start talking. He rarely (I say rarely because he must've done it at some point, but I don't remember) cuts to the other person listening and reacting and crap, which is sort of something you just DO in films. It looks better.

* Also, just like the first film, his action is often really weirdly and sloppily filmed and edited sometimes and I can't tell what the hell is going on. When he tripped up all those SWAT guys I didn't even know he'd tied that rope to any of them in the first place.

* The end part with the Joker is rather anti-climactic. I expected him to get another scene or something, but he ain't get shit.

* I really respect that Nolan almost completely shuns CGI so it was kind of shitty when the sonar bullshit showed up. I don't know how necssary it all was.

* Why'd he take so long to bust out the sonar bullshit? He had it in the works much earlier in the film.

In regards to what YOUs said:

Quote:
*Is Twoface dead or not? They act like he is, but considering the fall, he shouldn?t be.


I'm pretty sure he's supposed to be dead, yeah. Am I wrong or was there a flash of a future scene (along with the one of Gordon taking an axe to the bat signal) in which they showed a bit of his funeral?

Anyway, that I actually didn't have a problem with because it was established pretty early on that whatever the hell the batsuit is all made up of makes it so Batman can survive shit that people can't normally, which is how he's able to just jump on that one car and fall on his ass on that other car with Rachel in his arms, breaking the fall so she doesn't get hurt. So, yeah, I think it makes enough sense that he could get up but Harvey was fudged.

Quote:
*Also, Ramirez and her exact involvement in the Dent/Dawes kidnapping felt glossed over. All we know is that she and the cop at the bar had a hand in it, but not seeing it/hearing more about it made it hard for me to care. Just more clutter to distract from the big picture.


I agree. And, yeah, she was one of the many people I was just like, "Um...who's that now?" I didn't really remember her much at all from earlier.

Quote:
*Another thing that bothered me is how Batman and Gordon always kept in touch over radio in Gotham Knights, but here Batman couldn't even get him to call off the SWAT team.


Wait is Gotham Knights a comic? Fuck your comic shit, this means nothing to me. But I did think he could've just told Morgan Freeman to send a text to Gordon or something saying THE CLOWNS ARE THE HOSTAGES DAMMIT!! like he did before with the hospitals.

Quote:
*Was the China kidnapping subplot really necessary?


Mmm, I guess? That guy was sort of tied in near the end with the Joker burning all the money and crap. Anyway, it was far less tedious than I found the beginning of the previous film with all the training to be a ninja in the mountains, which I know was true to the comic and whatever the hell, but, again, I don't really give a snuh.

Quote:
*The guy who knew batman?s identity? whatever happened to him?


I guess he lived. And in regards to everything you said about him, I got no clue. I think, yeah, he didn't tell because Bruce saved him, which worked enough for me. What didn't really work for me was how he was like "Oh gosh, Morgan Freeman is right, guess I won't bother ratting him out" and then suddenly went, "Oh, never mind, actually I will." He was a cuntish character.

Quote:
The criminal ferry, if not both ferries would have broken out into a riot.


Yes, I totally agree. I fully expected people to just start fighting like mad. The voting thing was retarded. I think, yeah, most people would've just voted to blow up the other boat. I'm willing to buy that nobody could go through with it in the end, but I do think people would've been all GIMME DAT DETONATOR gung ho about it at first, at least. Also, I've seen people complaining that the people would surely not believe that the Joker was going to be true to his word and would assume that maybe using the detonator would blow up their own boat or some such thing, but I don't know about that. The only thing they knew of him was those few videos that got broadcast and that he killed a bunch of city officials. I'm willing to buy they'd just go along with him. And, of course, the audience knows that he's a man of his word.

Quote:
*Two-face's motivations weren't portrayed well.


Agreed, yeah. They sort of wanted it to be both OH HE'S GONE TOTALLY CRAZY as well as OH HE'S BOUGHT THE JOKER'S CRAP EXPLANATION. I can't imagine he'd not just kill the guy too. And how he started relying completely on the coin. I know they set it up earlier and also showed how he could go a bit nuts, but it was still kind of a stretch. But, hey! At least we got a guy with half a face holding a gun to a child's head, yeah?

Quote:
*Batman's superduper vision was stupid.


Yeah, fuck that shit.

Quote:
*Loose ends: What happened to Maroni? If Two-face survived the car crash then I assume he's okay unless otherwise indicated.


I sort of thought that it followed the superhero logic of if you're either a troubled hero or a fucked-up villain, you've been through so much shit already that you can just fall off buildings and get in car crashes and totally survive. Whereas normal people will just get smushed like nothin'. So I assumed he was dead. But I didn't care about him enough either way so eh.

IT WAS OVERALL GOOD, I'M PRETTY SURE I STILL LIKE THE FIRST TIM BURTON BATMAN BEST THOUGH OR MAYBE THE CROW I LIKE THE CROW.
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FortheLoveofJoe
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:44 pm  Reply with quote
Degrassi School President


Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 900

Oh, Gotham Knights is an anime thingy I see. I suppose it was supposed to link the films together, but nobody listens to anime. This is what you must remember.
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Jeff
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:52 pm  Reply with quote
Sheckerz
Sheckerz


Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 150
Location: Shermer, Illinois

That's what Gotham Nights is? I thought it was a comic book or something that the film was based around. That's what I get for not following Japanimation as much as the rest of the Internet but it's all
to me. Truffle Shuffle
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USAgent
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:54 am  Reply with quote
Professorman Johnson
Professorman Johnson


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 252
Location: The Great USA

Also see: I HAVE SCARS ON MY FACE. A'HM FUCKIN' CRAZY.

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Arguing with the cops is like shaking your fist at God. There's nobody there; and if there is, he's not listening. And if he's listening, all you're doing is pissing him off.
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Phen Lie-All
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:43 pm  Reply with quote
Wisegay
Wisegay


Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 312

I have to agree with USAgent. I too was quite confused over the whole kidnapping plot which only served to convolute matters.

I think the reason was why Heath Ledger had to portray the Joker as some kind of deep character was this is the NEW BATMAN UNIVERSE and it's like grown-up and emo. You can't just have the same old comic book characters from the 1930's anymore! Well, you can have them but they must now have COMPLEX PERSONALITIES! Like the Joker had to suffer from childhood pain, he can't just be an evil dude now. He has ISSUES!

And on the emo note, I was not very impressed by Batman. He seemed to spend the whole movie going, "THESE HANDS HAVE BLOOD ON THEM! MY SOUL IS IMPURE AND I SUFFER FROM WITHIN! I MUST SLASH MY WRISTS; I AM HARVEY DENT'S BITCH!" Whatever happened to the old Batman who just went out and kicked ass? He never spent his life crying alone in the dark before. This new Batman is just an emo fag who learned all his moves from anime.

And another thing, what happened to the dark deco REAL goth (not emo fag-goth) feel? The movie had NONE of the classic Batman feel whatsoever. I wager the great Bob Kane is spinning in his grave right about now. I think I'll be wtaching several Batman: The Animated Series episodes on Youtube now. That Batman would have shown this fag emo Batman the real meaning of what it means to be someone's bitch.
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Gringo
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:47 pm  Reply with quote
Sheriff de El Town


Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 43

Question!

When the Joker tells Batman he's put that annoying Rachel woman (something about that Maggie actress bothers me supremely) and Dent in two separate locations, Batman says "I'M A GONNA GETS ME RACHEL!!!"

However, when he shows up it's Dent that he's rescuing. Question is, did the Joker switch the people? Or did I miss some magical scene in which Batman changed his mind?

I think the latter, because rescuing Dent is more consistent with the rest of the movie in that it's (1) in line with Batman's insistence that Gotham needs Dent as its White Knight, (2) the Joker is a man of his word as evidenced by several other actions, so why would he suddenly be all mooga-mooga-switcharound the people, (3) who wouldn't want Rachel dead?
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Jeff
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:23 pm  Reply with quote
Sheckerz
Sheckerz


Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 150
Location: Shermer, Illinois

I'm pretty sure the Joker switched the addresses, remember when Batman slammed his head on the desk and the Joker told them that doing so usually makes the persons memory a bit foggy?

I think that's what happened here plus he wanted Dent alive so he could show him how easy it was for someone to snap when they lose everything.

Rachel (Maggie Galopyhaul (???)) already served her purpose anyway and if she isn't going to let Bruce Wayne into her Bat Cave, then she has no reason to exist anymore. So says the oldest of all Hollywood cliches.
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FortheLoveofJoe
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:45 pm  Reply with quote
Degrassi School President


Joined: 26 May 2007
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Yeah, this seems to be one of the main questions people ask, but it seems most likely that the Joker did a switchification. Otherwise, if Batman had changed his mind, both him and the police would've ended up at the same joint.

Also, I'm not sure he actually is a man of his word when I think about it. I mean, I guess in this case he really did just lie (although you could say his head did get foggy, but I assume he's just a douche), but, like, for example, how he said he was only going to take his cut of the money, but that ended up being all of it because then he goes "Oh because I am in control of all." Technically that's still the truth while the other is just a lie, but, eh, he's a bastard, basically.

Also, I've seen people asking how he knew Batman was going to go for Rachel. I guess he saw him save her earlier, so there's that argument, but I think a better way of looking at it is simply that he switched the addresses so Batman would go for the person he cared more about and oop! What a switcheroo.

Of course, the whole thing is also just one of the many things the Joker would have to know waaaaayy too much junk to actually pull of, as in he somehow had to be able to figure out "Batman will certainly be able to get to one place fast enough to save one of them, whereas the police gon be slow like molASSes!!" Oh, that Joker. What a physics wizard.
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Phen Lie-All
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:58 pm  Reply with quote
Wisegay
Wisegay


Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 312

Maybe it had something to do with Heath Ledger's death and the scene they had to use was just an out-take or something, never meant to actually be used in the movie but had to be. Another theory is that the script-writers were as confused over this as they were about the whole China kidnapping thing. It's almost as if three completely different Dark Knight movies were edited into one.
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